Church of England bishop says gays should 'repent'

American Spirit..scripture and religion in general is for people who are not strong enough to behave or be moral human beings without believing in magic. They are weak in spirit and need that mental crutch.

"Homosexuality is natural"

Yes, sin is natural, part of our sin nature. Paul explains it well in the Book of Romans. He, like all of mankind was a sinner. The price has been paid and all you have to do is turn from your sin and accept Jesus Christ. Salvation is a wonderful gift!!

American Spirit, tell me which scripture agree with the view of homosexuality.

A senior Church of England bishop has angered gay-rights campaigners by saying homosexuals should repent.

..and when pray tell does the bible tell us that Anglican Bishops are part of God's plan...talk about a lie in and of itself. Yet another one of those "Lady dost protest too much" comments.

Religion is nothing but corporate church made to look like "God".

Who is the author of confusion?

The Church would do well to also quote scriptures that require them to not judge, and those scriptures that show their Messiah as one who "Healed First" then said, ..."...go, and sin no more..."...

American Spirit may not have a clear or clean spirit, yet, may be on that same road of Damascus as was Paul, huh?

Just answering a question....Genesis 19...the story about Sodom and Gomorrah... Plus I watched the movie.. and yes, there were homossexuality activities in the movie based on this passage of the Bible.

Excellent point metoo. Christians and non Christians struggle with sin, just as Paul did. We are all on the road to Damascus.

Why is reality right and religion wrong?

Why is reality right and religion wrong?

Easy answer...religion is not reality.

Just answering a question....Genesis 19...the story about Sodom and Gomorrah... Plus I watched the movie.. and yes, there were homossexuality activities in the movie based on this passage of the Bible.

You are joking...right? A movie helped you to determine that there were homosexual activities in Sodom and Gomorrah...Honey, if you truly would study the bible and not take it out of context or read it literally, you would come to know that Sodom and Gomorrah were detroyed because of inhospitality.

Whether or not the word "know" referenced back to Sodom and Gomorrah meant sexually, or just a mere "acquaintence", we can NEVER honestly tell. Although many many many verses show that the sins of Sodom and Gomorrah were inhospitality to strangers, and nothing remotely near homosexuality.

Religion has been reality since the beginning of time. Why do you think places like Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan and others continue to fight for hundreds of years? It is more than just for land rights.

Although many many many verses show that the sins of Sodom and Gomorrah were inhospitality to strangers, and nothing remotely near homosexuality

well it's settled, we are safe because everyone knows that we are very hospitable :)

After the destruction of Sodom an Gomorrah, Lot had an incestuous relationship with his daughters. The Bible tells us that is a Sin. But Lot was and is considered a Righteous Man. Reading the Bible is like looking at the different Party platforms. It gives you what you want, therefore neither side is ever wrong. One man's sin is another's right of passage. I do believe in God, but I have a hard time believing those on the right who are too willing to pass judgement on others. Judgement is left to God, not man. David allowed the husband of Bathsheba to die in battle by having him put in the most dangerous part of the battle, but before that he arranged for him to come home from the battle so his wife would have an excuse for being pregnant, only the husband didn't sleep with her. David must have been the founder of the Republican Party, since so many are now sleeping with the wives of their employees. Damn, I just couldn't resist saying that!!! We have a right to believe certain things are wrong or immoral, but it is not our place to say that they should repent for they have sinned. I teach my family that certain things are not morally correct, but it is still their choice to believe or not. No matter what my daughter or grandson do, they will still be my family. I can't live their lives.

American Spirit, tell me which scripture agree with the view of homosexuality.

Tell me which scripture agrees with heterosexuality how it is carried out today?

Tell me which scripture agrees with capitalism running so far amuck that greedy large corportations drive our country into massive debt?

Tell me which scripture agrees that it is ok to alienate people that we dont understand?

Tell me which scripture tells you to send gays/lesbians to re-programming camps with brain de-programming and electroshock therapy?

American Spirit - The Scriptures disagree with your view.

Really, how? Are you fluent in Hebrew? Did you do your own translations and interpretations?

I agree with sin/crime being a manmade concept. Think about other countries and their laws that are different from ours. They may think ours is wrong and that theirs is right and vice versa.

Besides, if you want to talk about the sins, let us not forget pride. After all, who shows more pride in their own religion than the church.

I don't follow Christianity. Kinda loses that whole thing when you are told to love your neighbor, but you can stone non-believers.

Hey Dramafied... as I said I was only answering a question... I'm not a Bible Guru and I have nothing against peoples sexual preferences..... Some subjects like religion, politics and racism should never be discussed. After hours when I came back to this "seed" people were even saying that is natural homossexual behavior between animals... This sounds weird because animals are irrational.. humans are not! I lost track where I read that at, but what am I suposed to think? Is this an "excuse" for being gay? And another one, they raped man to humiliate them? What would you call a man who raped another man? I'm getting confused why do people become gay, some say that they are "born gay"... again, I just want to understand.. but don't worry on answering because this is going to go far...

"you would come to know that Sodom and Gomorrah were detroyed because of inhospitality."

Actually, Sodom & Gomorrah were destroyed by a natural cataclysm, such as an earthquake. To the ancient people, ignorant of how natural disasters really happened, they attributed this to an act of God, like all other natural disasters.

This sounds weird because animals are irrational.. humans are not!

Since when? Humans do irrational things all the time.

What would you call a man who raped another man?

A rapist and a poor excuse for a human being. What would you call it?

I'm getting confused why do people become gay, some say that they are "born gay"... again, I just want to understand.

Email me or read one of the many comments I have made on newsvine regarding that. Suffice it to say, my partner and I do both believe we were born gay. My attraction to boys goes back to my earliest earliest memories. Long before I knew that people even HAD sex, let alone how to do it. At a time where I thought storks still brought babies, I was still attracted to boys.

Besibug - in fact the scriptures say absolutely nothing about homosexuality - the idea that there was such a thing as sexuality (and heterosexuality and homosexuality and bisexuality) was not to be invented until the very late 1800's.

And, no; the scriptures do not talk about man on man sex; they talk about a male priest in a pagan religion having (or a male prostitute having paid) ritual sex with a worshipper being "not kosher" (actually it does not use a word that translates directly as sin either, the word "to'ebah" translates as "not-kosher")

Bubba - yet the "beasts" can not sin and thousands of species have been observed having same sex activities; your comment makes no sense. In fact, it is one of those "I am better than God" comments; the incredible arrogance of claiming that God was wrong in making thousands of species with homosexuals!

Fay - No, movies are even less accurate than english translations of the Bible (much can not be translated because it is tied to culture). King James originally had 66 priests of the Church of England his father created to marry Anne Boleyn, sneak off to europe and translate latin bibles when Latin was already a dead language. When they got back, he did not like the result because the Bible did not say what he wanted it to say so he fired them, got another 22 priests together and this time told them what the Bible should say and sent them off to make a new translation - which in 1611 became the King James Version.

Yes, I can see you are confused - the point about animals is sexuality can not be a choice - fruit flies with a brain the size of a head of a pin can not make this choice and there are plenty of homosexual fruit flies around. This also demonstrates that they, and all the other species including man are, in fact, born gay - although the exact means is not understood it would have to be genetic.

I would say that theses rules were layed down way before Christians or the age of religion. People did not have time or energy to waste on unproductive activities

I thought it was religious minions.

Laity ... uh Lay people ... uh (I kmew that one would be trouble)

"Stay of of people's bedroom and stop reading the bible literally."

Do we stay out if there if a child or incest going on in there? Do we not read that literally? I guess we can pick and choose what to read in the Bible.

I guess we can pick and choose what to read in the Bible.

Yes we can. I choose to read none of it as I would encourage others to do.

But seriously, why would people look to one of the most immoral belief systems ever created for moral guidance?

I guess we can pick and choose what to read in the Bible.

There are those that don't follow your book. That is your choice, as there are other beliefs in the world other than those taught in your book. People worship many things/beings one is no better than the other or is the "right" one, it's all in what you choose to believe in.

I am still waiting for the religious rite to start ridiculing those of us who eat pork.

Bubba - incest is a part of the Bible, the admonition isn't not to do it but not to do it to spite the other

Bubba, the Bible is like a gun. In and of itself it is neither harmless or harmful. But like a gun, in the wrong hands it becomes a murderous weapon.

As a Scientist, i find it hard to think that any part of the human body that was designed as an exit for excrement's, could then be termed "natural" for entry as a sexual act.

Are you sure you are a scientist...I doubt it. The penis is used for excrement as well and yet used to ejaculate sperm as part of the "natural sexual act" as you would call it. You as a "scientist" should know that you cannot define "natural"

Also, the true meaning of sodomy is defined as being inhospitable.

That is exactly my thoughts Dramafied. The male anatomy is set up to where urine comes from the same organ (penis) that semen passes through which is considered a 'natural' part of the sex act. So why is it any different with the anus? If you were a scientist you would also know that homosexuality has been observed in the animal kingdom. Are those animals' acts 'unnatural' as well?

As a Scientist, i find it hard to think that any part of the human body that was designed as an exit for excrement's, could then be termed "natural" for entry as a sexual act.

A) you arent a scientist, as scientists strive to figure out why homosexuality exists, they dont find ways to demonize people. And scientists who have studied it have been quite clear in their findings that you are ignoring.

B) Why are you defining one's sexual orientation by sex acts? Do you not think that one would be straight or gay without having any sex? Must all homosexuals partake in anal sex? What happens if a gay couple doesn't partake in anal sex, are they still homosexual?

'tho frequent in many heterosexuals, is likewise, un-natural to the design of the human engine.

Then you should be complaining about and attacking your fellow (I assume) heterosexuals too then. In fact, you should be lashing out at them even more if that's what you really believe, since they have an alternate place to put it, whearas gay men do not. And of course such comments as yours always neglect the lesbians and leave them out entirely.

I think perhaps your a little too focused on male on male action. Someone protesting too much?

"As a Scientist" - that gave me a good long chuckle

"i find it hard to think ' - we've noticed

"that any part of the human body that was designed" - next logical flaw. No part of the human body was designed

"as an exit for excrement" (which, BTW, is NOT pluralized) - and here is part of the problem. You are assuming it was "designed for a specific purpose."

Do you have any idea just how silly that sounds?

"As a Scientist" - - who apparently has no idea what science is.

Bubba, I am sure eating pork comes natural to you too. 8~o

Dram, I do like pork. No more burnt offerings and no more pork restrictions after Christ. It's all done for us. The price has been paid.

Bubba, are you a homosexual?

Dram, I am a sinner, but that is not one of my sins.

We are all sinners. However homosexuality in and of itself is no more a sin then heterosexuality.

As a Christian, one of our goals is to strive to be more like Christ as we grow in His knowledge. You certainly have a choice here not believe the Bible. I personally agree with the Bishop and his stand. He is only standing up for his beliefs the same way you stand up for yours. It is the advocates of the homosexual society that try to decieve Christians by making them believe we are either politically incorrect in our views and speech or that we are insensitive people that are stepping on the toes of those who live differently. I assure you there is an infringement of rights by the gay community on the Christian sect to undermine our beliefs and our way of thinking. The one and only true God plainly speaks out against not only the lifestyle of homosexuality but also makes it very plain about what happens to a nation of people that live for themselves and live in the fleshly ways as not only this country but others have taken up. God will only tolerate this so long and He will shut the door just as He did in the time of Noah. What were the people doing in Noah's time. Read your Bible. What were the people doing in Sodem? The same thing people are doing today. Think about it.

makes it very plain about what happens to a nation of people that live for themselves and live in the fleshly ways

Phew, sure is a good thing that bible is fiction and has no bearing on reality. Otherwise, I might be worried!

It is the advocates of the homosexual society that try to decieve Christians by making them believe we are either politically incorrect in our views and speech or that we are insensitive people that are stepping on the toes of those who live differently. I assure you there is an infringement of rights by the gay community on the Christian sect to undermine our beliefs and our way of thinking.

I would first ask who is deceiving whom? Being formerly a member of the Assemblies of God cult as I now call it, deception ran rampant. The bible suddenly became a weapon to newly born again zealots. I have come to learn the hard way that the bible clearly states nothing and in its current form is nothing less than a tool of the devil because it rightfully robs God from his throne. It is you with your lack of knowledge of a God you claim to know that undermines those who do not believe the way some you do.

Gays are not trying to infringe anything on anyone. Gays are calling to have the same rights that is available to everyone in this country. Really, they shouldn't have to fight for something that is already theirs. So don't play this "Christian" martyr game with me. The Bible talks about the great whore of the end times. I have come to conclusion that it is those who claim to be "Christian". You dethrone God and make all his decisions and make all of his judgements from a book written by men and women who have no recollection of what happened and then slap a disclaimer on it that says it is all inspired by the Holy Spirit. Do you think that an omnipotent God would trust his real word to a bunch of hypocrites.

Way to go CR86, you just proved Gandhi's point.

The one and only true God plainly speaks out against not only the lifestyle of homosexuality but also makes it very plain about what happens to a nation of people that live for themselves and live in the fleshly ways as not only this country but others have taken up. God will only tolerate this so long and He will shut the door just as He did in the time of Noah. What were the people doing in Noah's time. Read your Bible. What were the people doing in Sodem? The same thing people are doing today. Think about it.

I invite you to quote chapter and verse where it says that God plainly speaks out against not only the lifestyle of homosexuality but also makes it very plain about what happens to a nation of people that live for themselves and live in the fleshly ways as not only this country but others have taken up

And tell me this, how long will God tolerate you quoting scripture to judge others.

Do you really know what the people in Sodom and Gomorrah were doing when they were destroyed? Do you think "God" would pe so petty as to destroy two towns because of just one sin which you would define as anal tercourse? Try inhospitality. The neighbors were not loving each other as themselves.

If you want to get quotey, then you should refrain from eating pork and having sexual relations with your wife/husband except to procreate, this among the multitudes of other sinful passages you would quote to someone in disagreement with you or your "God".

God's people use the scripture to not only live by but to teach other how to live and so we can spread the word of salvation to the world. The Bible is the guidebook for Chrisitians. It is the word we live by and try to tell others about.
And by the way, how do you know if I eat pork or not or by the way how do you know about the sexual relationship I have with my husband.

I am sorry that you dont believe God's word but I assure you that one day evey knee, including yours will bow before Him and then you will believe. I pray for this nation and the unbelievers in hopes that one day it will turn back to God before it is everlasting to late.

I assure you that one day evey knee, including yours will bow before Him (sic) and then you will believe.

LOL.

Let me assure you that there probably is no god, so stop with all this stupidness and just enjoy your life.

God's people use the scripture to not only live by but to teach other how to live and so we can spread the word of salvation to the world. The Bible is the guidebook for Chrisitians. It is the word we live by and try to tell others about.

I would first have you to define "God's" people. Next I would have you define "teach others how to live"....The bible does not teach anybody how to live. It is a recollection from those who had heard the story and had their own interpretations. The bible cannot be taught, it can only be learned. The bible is not a handbook for Christians. The old testament proves that since it was written before Christ. The bible was written as a device to control the masses. The bible is interpreted differently by all who read it and all the religions that had a hand in rewriting it. That is why it cannot be taught. You can't teach opinions. That is a human instinct based on ones own perception.

I am sorry that you dont believe God's word but I assure you that one day evey knee, including yours will bow before Him and then you will believe. I pray for this nation and the unbelievers in hopes that one day it will turn back to God before it is everlasting to late.

I never said I did not believe in God's word. However I don't believe God's word can be put into chapter and verse. I don't believe God would put the ones he loves through a mystery tour of life always having to figure out what is right and what is wrong based on the perception of others. God himself remains a mystery to all of us. I am convinced though that it is how we treat one another that determines our fate in this universe.

God will only tolerate this so long and He will shut the door just as He did in the time of Noah.

Ya know....this whole boogyman is gonna get you thing is getting old. People such as yourself have been proclaiming such things for thousands of years. Since your religion was invented. And you all talk as if such a thing is going to "happen any day now". And you've all been wrong. Wrong wrong wrong. All you really have done, is elevate yourself to God-like status with your God-complex. Deciding what is right and wrong for everyone else, passing judgment on everyone else. Actually morally superior to others.All contrary to your own religion.

If you truly believed in that book you like to wave around, you would practice all of it's teachings, not pick and choose which ones you should follow and then decide that others should follow the letter of the law even more than you do.

If you truly believed in God, you would understand that he does not need your help. If he created the plants, animals, earth and humans then he can run things without you just fine. If God didn't want gay marriages, their wouldn't be any. He could easily have put a stop to it. And yet all such efforts are only in the past. All such mystical things like parting of seas, talking snakes, pillars of salt, and on and on are also only in the past. Why is that? Why didn't these sorts of things just keep continuing on? Have you ever asked yourself that? If not, you should.

If God didn't want gay marriages, their wouldn't be any.

Hey! Our god is so powerful that he doesn't need to work directly, he can get other people to ineffectively do it for him. Err... something like that.

I ask you then, where do you see anal intercourse as being the cause of the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah in what you just quoted to me? The cities were destroyed because of continued inhospitality towards strangers.

You cannot use a word like sinfulness as the reason why God would have detroyed these cities. If that were the case, then there would have been no cities left on earth at that time. As for mockery towards God it exists out of every nation. It isn't about God, it is about how we treat his creation. God certainly can fend for him/herself. Love thy neighbor as yourself is the key. That is what people find so hard to do.

Dram, where do you think the word "sodomy" came from. Yes, Sodom. Read a little more. It's all in there.

Bub, you are missing the point. Sodomy is not anal intercourse...it is inhospitality.

Bub, you are missing the point. Sodomy is not anal intercourse...it is inhospitality.

Just because the words are the same, doesn't mean that the original texts were interpreted properly. This is the root cause of all of the Christianist babbling about gays. They've misinterpreted their own religious book so much based on their own prejudices, that they can't even back it up anymore. It just "is" because they say so, and thus, obviously God said so. But they forget the most important christian principle of all... following Christ. Ghandi clearly pointed out the problem with most christians, they dont follow Christ, they just say they do, because it makes them feel better when they do their demonizing.

"Dram, where do you think the word "sodomy" came from. Yes, Sodom. Read a little more. It's all in there." - Ok, This has officially become theatre of the absurd. Someone translates something into english (anglish actually) as a reference to a town that was destroyed long before the word was invented - and you don't get how silly this is? That's like saying "Jesus was a londoner"

I am quite sure CR that Gaithersburg very much understood what he/she read. You just refuse to hear someone elses perception of your way of thinking.

This all assumes Sodom and Gommorrah were even real. Their existence still to this day has not been proven. Or that they were even named correctly. So first we'd need to get all that cleared up, THEN we could start talking about what really happened to them.

I find the notion that every single person in town was wicked to be really stupid. A group of humans someplace would never agree on things 100%. That's just human nature. We all are different. There are always exceptions to even majorities. So no. The more likely explanation is that their were some towns somewhere destroyed by a natural event. Much as the city of Pompeii was. And then some wild tales were told about the event much the same way your grandfather might have told you about that HUGE fish that he once caught, but never really did. In other words, a whopper of a tale.

Also, your going to tell me in both towns there wasn't a single baby? Nice freakin god to do that.

And the animals. What did they do? Why is their always collateral damage when God gets mad? Is he that bad an aim? Even the military can strike with more precision than that. (Though not perfect). But God, he IS supposed to be perfect, right? So why do the animals and babies always suffer too?

Nothing in the bible is plain CR. That it where you are seriously mistaken. God does not speak in Romans. Paul does. Paul didn't know what affection was. He never married. He said it was better to stay single. That in and of itself is not God's plan. God made man in his image and that included sexuality, and not only for procreation. You are limiting God to a book. You are also limiting God to Jesus.

BTW I have read Roman's more than once. Also all I get out of it is Paul boasting allot and continuously on a "woe as me" role. I believe the thorn in Paul's side that is never mentioned is he himself dealing with his ignorance to sexual feelings. Sexuality is not taboo in the eyes of God or else he wouldn't have made it such a strong emotion in the human anatomy.

Dram - The scripture was lovely, however, I know what I believe and do not wish to read anything into the God inspired scripture.

It's funny how ignorance can be selective CR.

"God does not speak in Romans. Paul does. Paul didn't know what affection was."

Yes, it is Paul speaking in Romans. Paul did not start out with any affection for Christians, indeed he was a killer of Christians. After being blinded by the light of God for three days he became a follower of Christ.

….Not even being scourged . . beaten with rods . . imprisoned . . shipwrecked . . stoned and left for dead . . hunted down . . afflicted by painful malaria . . beaten in so many other ways, could keep him down. Like Christ on the Way of the Cross, he just kept getting up and moving forward….

We Christians need more believers like Paul who eventually died for his faith. He walked the walk.

" I know what I believe and do not wish to read anything into the God inspired scripture."

In other words, you choose to not think for yourself nor employ any critical thinking into scriptural interpretation and meaning. You are blindly compliant to what has been spoon fed to you and follow such ridiculous notions like a good little sheep would. Am I in the ballpark here or what?

Ok so if I want to imitate Paul, all I need to do is go and murder a whole bunch of people I don't like because I disagree with them. And all will be forgivin if I write a whole bunch of letters on morality after almost getting struck by lightning. Then Convert to a rising political force with a large religious backing and become an icon.

Wow, that makes absolutely no sense whatsoever...

More ignorance being spread. In Romans; Paul invemnts a new word where there were many many words for man on man action ("paiderasste" for instance) - paul comes up with "arsenkoitai" (man + beds - literally speaking) So what is he talking about? Another (pagan) religion, he repeatedly refers to Molech (moloch in some translations) and the followers and priests of Molech here. This was a Roman fertility religion where people had all kinds of sex - Paul is basically telling "Christians" not to change religion and become followers of Molech (it would bankrupt the church, after all - where would Paul get his money? He might actually have to (gasp) work!)

Thank you for your blessing. We will just have to agree to disagree on both our parts. Blessings to you as well.

I wish Santa's blessings on you both.

me i want a hula hoop!

(gee icon we r kinda stinkers ya know)

May the Flying Spaghetti Monster, as the one true god, bless all with his noodly appendage. Ramen!

Hey El Icono, jakooz and gord...I was trying to be nice here ;~)

What, don't you want Santa's blessings? I can also get you some easter bunny blessings... for the right price.

screw the easter bunny he touched me in the no no place! Now the tooth fairy blessings yeeeeooowwwzza that chick is HOT

L O L !!!!

Well if it leads to incest they should be happy then, as things will have come full circle. After all, if we started with just Adam & Eve, we are all a product of incest, are we not?

Adam and Eve, then Cain and Eve (adam had no daughters, remember?) - boy, that Eve sure got around